Putting the "Bang" on a Leash

[hsifeng]

We’re slowly by surely getting our gear together for the upcoming School of the Renaissance Solder (April 17^th – 19^th at Camp Tamarancho). Since the powderflasks are here and are ready to get finished, I need to start formulating my plan for their cording. I am gathering a few images together from the various sources I have found to try and get an idea of what cording style I should use.
 

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This tag is for the two preceding above images:


I have no idea if the cord on this early 17th C horn is original or not. If it is, perhaps it shows that these cords were sometime flat braided? Or maybe the cord was simply braided differently in this section, making it flat. I believe this can be done with fingerloop and a couple of other styles:



And before you think it, no...we don't want *this* many tassles. Just a couple of smaller ones and perhaps one for use as a vent brush...

 

 

I can fingerloop, lucet and card-weave: However, I am not sure that the cords in the images above were produced with any of these methods – at least I have never managed to make a cord of that size, using thread/yarn elements that small. The cords made via Kumihimo seem to look more like the ones in the images, but what technique did Europeans use at this point in time that produced a cord of such thickness? 
 

My initial thought is that I should card-weave a band about 1” – 1.5”, I could then stitch it into a cord (either around a core of an alternate material or not). This would leave me plenty of ‘tail strands’ to make the various fringe and tassel hangers that the images show. Then again, almost any cord weaving technique using multiple strands will do the same. 

 

Anyone out there have any suggested techniques?

Of course, once I am done with this cording I will be starting on cording for the cartridges...

Comments

[cranky-dragon-2.livejournal.com]

You could probably do a 4 strand lucet - never done one myself, but it can't be THAT hard. I look forward to seeing whatever you come up with!

[hsifeng.livejournal.com]

Do you have directions on a multi-strand lucet pattern? I have only ever seen 1 strand, with a possible additional strand for decorative effect.

I found an interesting exploration of lucet vs. fingerloop and regular braiding here (”http://www.et-tu.com/soper/cgi-bin/index.cgi?action=viewnews&id=51"). The author is discussing the possible documentation of lucet cords during the “silent” period of the 15th century (which I have also done some research (http://hsifeng.livejournal.com/tag/lucet) on for the 16th C).

I really like her comparative image of the various styles:

(http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/hsifeng/16th%20C%20Images/16th%20C%20Reproduction%20Clothing/?action=view&current=all3.jpg)

[cranky-dragon-2.livejournal.com]

You know I don't. I've seen a 4-pronged lucet and that's what I was thinking of. But you could also use a "knitting buddy" - also known as a spool knitter. It's a little guy with four nails in his head and you wind it 'round. Google it, it'll make sense, really. And it does a 4 strand pretty easy. I found one at Joanns for like 3 bucks on clearance.

[hsifeng.livejournal.com]

Interesting...someone had told me once that "knitting machines" were around in the 16th C. I have no idea what their frame of reference was, but this might have been the sort of machine they were thinking of. Given the instructions for two color knitting here (http://www.gutenberg.org/files/22029/22029-h/22029-h.htm) I am guessing you could come up with something that would look similar to the cords in these images.

[cranky-dragon-2.livejournal.com]

Yep, and you can also make them if you can't find them - they're basically a wooden tube with nails on one end. You can even put 2 or 4 more nails on them for a bigger cord. Do them one color or multiples. It's pretty easy. Took me like a minute to teach myself - much easier and faster than a lucet.

[hsifeng.livejournal.com]

I am always up for learning more cord styles!

Found this on the "Elizabethian Knitting Machine" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stocking_frame).

[cranky-dragon-2.livejournal.com]

That's TOO crazy!!!

[rectangularcat]

fingerloop most probably - for cord that size it could be a two person braid though. tubular card weaving is very finicky and no proof for lucet in that time period.

Do you read Gina B's website and blog? You can find them here http://www.et-tu.com/ginb/index.shtml She has some good info on tassels and cords.

[hsifeng.livejournal.com]

I am leaning toward experimenting with a 5 - 7 strand fingerloop at this point. It should give me plenty of 'loopy bits' at the end to make into the smaller tool and tassel cords and the option of two-tone cording as well. I am only concerned the extant pieces seem to have the appearance of round lace, and I seem to recall that my fingerloop end up a bit on the square side.

BTW – Thank you for the website reference! I will have to look through her information at time permits today…*grin* Any excuse to avoid work…*rolls eyes* Damn this gorgeous California Spring weather, I don’t want to be in an OFFICE! *gnashes teeth*

[rectangularcat]

It really depends on your braid with the fingerloop. Forgot that lucet was a research project of yours!

It's -48C -58C with the windchill. I am brrr cold and thankful NOT to have to go outside.

[hsifeng.livejournal.com]

*chuckle* Yeah, and I am planning to start my veg seed this weekend – we are in two verydifferent parts of the world…*grin*

Overall, I would love to see someone get the access to extant pieces and do an in-depth analysis of cord composition. It seems like this is an un-mined research area for the most part at this point. From what I have seen (and I have not done an exhaustive amount of research, just skimmed the surface), most of the conclusions about lucet use comes from the lack of extant samples of the *tool* in the periods between the 13th and 17th C.

Yes, four hundred years without many surviving lucets does say a lot, but it may not say everything. Without some in depth analysis of the cords themselves, we may be missing some of the picture. The exact example escapes me right now, but I believe the ladies in the Tudor Tailor brought up a particular article of clothing that was commonly found in the inventories of 16th C England, but of which no extant samples exist, and almost no art images demonstrate.

Its hunts like this that inspire me! *wink*

Anyone want to co-author a grant application for the Janet Arnold scholarship and see about writing a book on cords?

[muzadi.livejournal.com]

Renaissance pr0n...mmmmm...you're always good at satisfying my wretched habits...

[hsifeng.livejournal.com]

*snort* You’re just an easy target for explosives. And I mean that in both ways. *grin*

[muzadi.livejournal.com]

You're so sweet. ;-)

[hsifeng.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I blame it on my ancestry. *grin*

[femkederoas.livejournal.com]

Looks like fingerloop to me. May I ask Mistress Emmelyne to take a look? She's a Laurel in silkwork - to include fingerloop braiding and other techniques.

[hsifeng.livejournal.com]

By all means, I would appreciate any input.

[margorose.livejournal.com]

In Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlocked, Janet Arnold, in one of her rare moments of sloppy scholarship, stated that the cords used as points may have been made using the same technique as Japanese kumihimo. I suspect she must have had some basis for believing this. I also have an 1849 copy of Godey's Lady book that contains an article on making jewelry out of braided hair, and the apparatus shown is exactly like a marudai, the braiding stand used to do kumihimo. However, at the time Japan had been closed to almost all foreign commerce for two centuries, and would remain so until 1854.

I suspect that these two bits of information may mean that there was a marudai type of tool in use in the Western world, that may have been brought to Europe before Japan closed its ports. It could be a fascinating topic for research.

[hsifeng.livejournal.com]

I agree completely! I have done snooping through various 'antique needle tool' catalogues/books in the past - looking for lucet information - perhaps I need to send out for ILL on these again to see what pops up. Wait, in what spare time will that happen!?!

*chuckle*

I blame Janet, I have her new book and I am anticipating a lot of time spent with linen in the next few months…

[gina-b.blogspot.com (from livejournal.com)]

Hi, I found this by following a back-link. There are some great images here! The top image (with the twisted look to the cord) appears to me to be a fingerloop braid - a two-person "lace bend". It looks very much like a twisted cord, such as you would find in modern curtain tie-backs, but the 'jagged' appearance usually points to the threads being interwoven.

Although there's really not enough detail to see, I'd say that all of these are fingerloop braided, with two (or perhaps even 3 people).

If you were going to something tablet woven, try a tubular weave as opposed to stitching it into a cord. This is the method found on seal tags, purse strings, and a tiny one for a rosary string. Basically, always put the weft thread through from the same side, not back and forth, drawing the weave into a tube. This is alot stronger (and if you were really worried about strength you could weave around a core thread, or thread one through afterwards, though I don't know of this historically).

In actual fact, a lucet or knitted cord probably isn't going to be strong enough - these are effectively only using one thread. If the thread breaks, the whole cord snaps or unravels. That's why a fingerloop braid in particular is used so often; having more elements it is stronger.

If you know cord-spinning, that is another quite viable option. It takes some practice, but it is very easy to get a nice thick cord.

Also, you don't need to worry about having lots of threads to form the tassel. All of these you've shown are multi-element tassels made separately using various passementerie techniques.

Oh, and re the Janet Arnold and kumihimo, alot of this is simply because of her date of publication and research known at the time. Only ten years ago it was thought that fingerloop braids could only be made with 7 loops, no more, but research and the discovery of manuscripts have changed that. However, the use of bobbins to make braids does seem to come into use around this period. There is an instruction to make a braid at the end of a fingerloop braiding manual from the 17th century (held in the V&A)using bone bobbins - this is a flat patterned braid, and yet uses a process in between fingerloop braiding and bobbin lace. With thought, most fingerloop braids can be made using bobbins (as lacemaking) as in both the elements are used in pairs. So, although similar to Japanese braiding (who also used FL btw)it seems to have developed somewhat differently/independently.

Sorry this comment is so long, do contact me if you need to! :)

[hsifeng.livejournal.com]

I just got introduced to your site recently (through this topic) and I have to say that if you say it’s fingerloop I am going to believe it. *chuckle* I have never done more than a five loop braid, so this may take awhile to get the hang of (especially if I need to get someone else in on the trick…). In the meantime, I may well work out the tubular tablet weaving.

And don’t worry about long responses; I love when people give detailed answers. *grin* Thank you! In the end, you are giving me more ideas of cording options to look into for various projects: Almost everything needs a cord, you know!

[gina-b.blogspot.com (from livejournal.com)]

Phew! Glad I didn't irritate you.

The lace bend for one person is perhaps the easiest of all the fingerloop braids.

Thanks for the compliment, but I have a lifetime left to learn, (and about 5 lifetimes TO learn) and within a year I might well find out something to change what I just told you! ;)

[hsifeng.livejournal.com]

"....and within a year I might well find out something to change what I just told you! ;)"

I know this phenomenon first hand. *chuckle* Seems as there is always more to learn than there are hours in the day!

[broider-barones.livejournal.com]

Lucet - 2 -4 colors and double - I can show you how in 5 minutes - next time we meet :) -- BUT no evidence Lucet is pre-1700
Finger Loop and Kumihimo - YES! Jacqui Carey who is the goddess of all things braided showed us in a class how to do staff and crown in Kumihimo where as it would be a 2 person Finger Loop process. She is working on other patterns as well. The spiral cording in Kumihimo looks a lot like some of the Fingerloop I've seen too.
Know this is an older post of yours but wanted to check in. We will need to talk some time about cording and share notes.

[hsifeng.livejournal.com]

Know this is an older post of yours but wanted to check in. We will need to talk some time about cording and share notes.

Yes, yes, yes!

When are we going to be in the same place at the same time next? Are you going to Casa?

[broider-barones.livejournal.com]

no -- mostly SCA these days - Renovation?? Collegium - Nov 5??

[hsifeng.livejournal.com]

*sad face* I don't really do any SCAdian events. *sigh* Perhaps this is a sign I should start? *chuckle*