To Join or Not To Join

[hsifeng]

The investigation begins: I know that several folks who are readers of this journal are also current/former members of the SCA. I have been on a number of ‘SCA’ involved lists (including the GermanRenCostume list) for years – and have been impressed by the level of research and dedication I find in some of the folks involved there.

 

So the question is: What are the benefits of joining?

 

I am very interested in medieval/Early Modern crafts and I suspect I would be able to get a good amount of interaction/input/craft buddy time as a SCA member. I understand that membership ‘requirements’ (participation and whatnot) are pretty much at-your-own-pace. I am pretty darn sure that I can reenact my German persona there.

 

The hitch is this: I have done ‘RenFaire’ for years and am not in love with the whole ‘anachronism’ thing. Obviously there is a wide range of accuracy involved in SCA groups (as there is with RenFaire).

 

So - Is the balance worth it?

 

If I am interested, step two would be getting hubby to show up and not snark at the weapons folks: He can be very personable, but I don’t know how he’ll feel about the rules interpretations vs. historical texts on fighting. Anyone have a fighter husband/S.O. who could hand down some thought on this?

Comments

[dravon.livejournal.com]

*starts my take/perspective/experiences*

I've been playing on the edge of the border of the SCA for going on 15 years now, and attending RenFaire for only the last few.

Differences: (1) RenFair is a huge time commitment. They run for a set period of time and fellow participants depend on you showing up. SCA is more free-form. Events tend to be week-long or weekend affairs, with a few notable exceptions (Pensic). You go if you can. (2) RenFair is Renaissance Europe. You tend to have your character, which limits your focus and ability to branch out. SCA spans nearly 1000 years, from fall of Roman Empire up to end of Elizabethan age (they moved the date, since so many folks were doing Elizabethan). They also allow more than just Europe. I have a friend who does Mongolian, and other who do Japanese. That's a lot of room for movement. While technically my character is 12th century Welsh, that is pretty much ignored. I make the clothes I feel like making, but make sure that the final presentation all matches (ie, everything from the same culture/time frame). Because of the flexibility, I can learn dozens of techniques and switch back and forth between nobility and peasant clothing as the technique being learned dictates. Once completed, if I don't want it there is always someone who can use it. (3) The weapons which are allowed are dramatically different. No live-steel ANYTHING in the SCA. (4) The SCA has an "everybody should have an opportunity to play at whatever they want to" mentality, where RenFairs tend to say "not everybody can be the queen, dammit!" (5) There are few non-participants at SCA events. They tend to be more for-geeks-by-geeks than Fair, which is more a theatrical production than a true festival. Because of this, Fairs tend to focus on patrons and gigs, etc, while SCA is focused on providing activities (contests and stuff) for the participants who show up. (6) There is no "ten-foot rule" in Fair. Thank goodness.

Similarities: (1) Both groups cater to people with a strong interest in history, even if it's just a method of temporary mental escape from the modern world. (2) Both groups have a wide range of sub-groups which allow you as an individual to find your niche group with similar interests/ ideals/ perspectives. (3) You can never escape politics. It's inevitable.

The idea that RenFaires are more "historically accurate" than SCA is, imho, bunk. I think that depends wholely on the fair being attended. I've attending PLEEEENTY of fairs in which participants (not guests!) are running around in bikini chainmail with wings. Pulease. The idea that SCA is sloppy or careless in it's research is also bunk. Sure, there are definitely those who fit that bill *looks guilty* but there are also plenty of others who go to extremes to make sure that every nuance is accurate.

I tend to prefer the SCA to Faires because of the time demand differences but also because I have the flexibility to do what I want to with the SCA, while with Fair I'm being forced into a single mold and I'm not overly happy with that. There is also a HUUUUGE focus in the SCA on the arts, from fiber to crafts, that is more of a minor role in the Fair world. Of course, SCA is also very big into fighting, but it's with sticks and the fighters tend to think "those who hit the hardest are the best" and that's exactly why Miles never fought heavy. He tended to the rapier, because it was a smaller group looking into technique rather than "me bash". He dropped out after a while due to the inevitable politics. Because there are a lot more people (hence personality types) in the SCA, I think the politicing is much worse there but every group is different.

In the SCA, however, there do tend to be alot of self-important folks of whaever type (fighter, craftsman, artist). There are also a lot of sloppy stuff - gold lame' and spandex dresses, sort of sloppy. I tend to hang out with the middle-of-the-road "research it so you can do it right, but don't get hung up on EVERY detail" artisan type of crowd, but I have a reasonably tolerance for other people, so it doesn't bother me that other folks are more or less into the history or spirit of things than I am. Well. That's my take. (tbc)

[dravon.livejournal.com]

You would probably fall into the arts crowd pretty quickly, but I'm not sure Chris would be happy there because the fighting is so very different than his ideal. That's pretty much the boat Miles and I are in, so he's like "if we go to an event, I can kick back and drink with friends for the duration" while I want to go to the displays and manhandle everything. heh. Miles is also interested in the calligraphy, so that's a plus. If there's something non-fighting about pre-Renaissance era he's interested in, that's the aspect to focus on in the SCA.

*ends my take/perspective/experiences*

[hsifeng.livejournal.com]

Thanks honey, I appreciate the 'man perspective' and I believe you are right: The thing that is most likely to turn Chris off is the stick jock mentality. He has seen it in the way a few of our guys in DHF fight who come from Adria (I have *no idea* how representative of SCA that is) and it makes him ill.

He *loves loves loves* to blacksmith though - so maybe I can get him all crafty with that if I get him out at all. He did say he might be OK with the idea of going to the local War at the end of April if we could dress in our regular Germans...

[tristinmorgan.livejournal.com]

If Chris wants to go and check it out my dad is doing the treasure chest war as blacksmith and that is the same weekend as visalia faire.. i could talk to him about you guys going with them to check it out if you so desire..

[hsifeng.livejournal.com]

Thanks sweetie! I will ask him if he is interested and let you know.

BTW - did you get a chance to talk to your mom about the pleater? Inquiring minds want to know...*grin*

If you and Tina haven't cut your bodices yet, I had some ideas for reworks on the armseye - let me know: Maybe we can get together on Tuesday.

[tristinmorgan.livejournal.com]

we have not cut them yet so I will talk to her about gettig together on tues.. we wanted to do another mockup with the changes before cutting with our actual fabric.... and yes I talked to my mom and she said it is very expensive but if you want to get together with her she will do the smocking for you....

[hsifeng.livejournal.com]

OK, bring some more of the dark blue heavy fabric on Tuesday and we will finalize the mock ups - it was just not OK with me that I didn't finish them completely the night you were both here. *slaps forehead*

As for the smocking: I want to do the handsewing myself but I wanted to ask for the use of the pleating machine to prep the fabric before mocking it. Please let her know we can go over this in detail whenever she has time. Thank you again for making the connection for me!

[tristinmorgan.livejournal.com]

sounds perfect... her email is sewgin@yahoo.com if you would like a more direct communication

[hsifeng.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

[hsifeng.livejournal.com]

1) I am certainly looking for a lower time commitment – even knowing that politics are everywhere, at least I can only deal with them when I feel like it. *snort*

2) The idea of multiple time periods is cool with me: I don’t mind it at Ft. McArthur so I don’t think I’ll mind it anywhere else. It may freak me out to have multiple periods *in one camp* but we shall see…

3) Hubby is fine with waster fighting – so long as the wasters are actually somewhat analogous to the actual size, balance of the real thing.

4) They aren’t going to *make* me be the Queen – right? I just get to dress pretty when I want to and be a good ol’ campwife the rest of the time?

5) I don’t ‘do faire’ for the gigging or the crowds – I do it for the history. When I first started I was much more interested in the theater, but now I tend to see it as a big ol’ distraction. The Disneyfication of the 16th Century. “Have a Minnie Mouse Leg, a Goofy Beer and check out Mickey jousting!” *bleech*

6) *blink* *blink* What is a 10’ rule?

Trust me, I *do not* think that faires have the corner on the historical accuracy market. There are a few groups that totally rock my historic world and a whole lotta others that do not. *shrug* I go where I can get my freak on with others that appreciate it. *grin*

I am a little curious about the overall structure of the SCA and how they handle things like their mentoring, etc. I am sure those are all questions that Meg (the local Baroness and the lady I am refreshing my lucets skills with) can answer for me.

It is funny that you and Miles tend to parallel Chris and I so much…sometimes it makes me giggle. *grin*

[dravon.livejournal.com]

The 10 foot rule.

If it looks good 10 FEET AWAY it's good enough.

*cringes* 10 feet away, duct tape looks reasonable ... but it's not. The equestrian group I was with used that rule extensively. "Maybe we should at least wash the horse crap off the barding before we go to this gig they are paying to do?" "Nah, 10 foot rule. It's okay." GAH!


As far as structure goes, yeah, your local person can help with that. But I do know that actual titles and ranks are things conferred within the SCA group. It's assumed that everyone is a minor minor noble, because it's assumed nobody wants to play a peasant clodhopper. Almost ALL rank, however, is earned solely through fighting. Knight, Duke, King, etc. I do not offhand know of any other way to earn a titled rank within the SCA. But you can dress in whatever manner you want, though I'm sure a crown might be frowned on. *L* Not that you'd do that, it's just that the image was funny.

[hsifeng.livejournal.com]

Ahhh... I think I may have heard of that before. *bleech* *grin* No joke, the duct tape may be a deal breaker...*chuckle*

But I am pretty sure I can get over it!

waters, weapons, et cetera

[rwfranz.livejournal.com]

About those "wasters", weights, et cetera.

The SCA has some fairly strict rules about how long a weapon can be (mostly for safety's sake, especially here in California).

Here's a link containing an article comparing rattan weapons and actual real weapons from period. Sorry, it's a pdf and not html.

http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Medieval/miscellany_pdf/Other_Articles_IV.pdf

The guy who wrote it, Cariadoc of the Bow, is in mundanity David Friedman, the economist and writer. Cariadoc is reasonably well known in SCA circles (he's a Pelican, a Laurel, and a Duke). Cariadoc is also very much into authenticity: Cariadoc's Miscellany. (http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Medieval/miscellany_pdf/Miscellany.htm)

At any rate, the rattan weapons must be at least an inch and a quarter in diameter; the largest opening allowed in the armor is one inch; these requirements are for safety reasons. Some people use larger weapons than that.

Re: waters, weapons, et cetera

[hsifeng.livejournal.com]

Thank you for getting this information to me. I will have to share it with the hubby and see what he thinks.

[sstormwatch.livejournal.com]

Talk to Meg. She's a fighter, and so is her husband Cedric (who is also newly Knighted, and hence a Noble, after 10 years of working for it - this is a high honor in the SCA, btw, not the "knight whoever for a gig thing, and sometimes it means something" that often happens at faire (at least in the noble groups I am involved with). You may remember Cedric, as he used to do faire with the Cliff Basset's group Azure Cross, and I think he helped develop the CIRGA rules on combat when he was with Cliff's group - as I remember him at Hanford meetings when those were being discussed. Cedric *will* strongly recommend SCA over Faire, as he is a big convert, just a headsup on that.

The local fighters do combat practice on Friday evenings, at the park on Marks south of Shaw. I think it is Rotary park, the one with the skateboard ramps, starting around 6pm or so, I think. I've yet to go, but you can both go, talk to the lords and ladies who are involved, some of the women just go to chat & knit, while other women are in full armor practicing.

Is the balance worth it? Only you can decide. I suggest you give it a try for awhile at the very least. You can go to the events *you* want to attend, go to Baronial Council Meetings (BCM) where you can meet the local people, and find out what's going on, and just socialize a bit with people. I think you and Lady Kaolin will get along well, as she's the big crafter in our Barony (and she loves to share her knowledge). Cedric does armor smithing, as do a couple of other guys. There are upcoming events, which you can attend a day if you want. One is Treasure Chest, at Kearney Park at the end of April. It is the same weekend as Visalia, and sadly CostumeCon (which I will be attending). You could do one day at one event, and do the other day at the other event if you want.

And you may also want to join the local Baronial yahoo group. Most of the info will be on this mailing list. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baronyofnordwache/
Feel free to join up, and listen in for a bit. The people there have been very willing to answer questions you have, and are a bit of a laid back, whacky group.

[hsifeng.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the observations on what is going on locally and for the heads up on the local fight practice and Barony contact site. I will join up at the Yahoo group and check things out. In the meantime, I will keep picking Meg’s brains and try to get hubby to go out for a day at the Kearny Park event.

*hugs*

[eponia2001.livejournal.com]

Do you mean Lyons Park on Emerson and Marks?

[sstormwatch.livejournal.com]

Yes, that may be the park name. They just call it "the park" anymore, so I don't remember it by name.

They also meet at Letterman Park in Clovis sometime during the week. The other skateboard park, with the water tower. I should have that name right, as I once lived/worked next door at Dry Creek Meadows (apt. manager). I don't remember what night they practice. They also meet in Lemoore sometimes, for the south valley crew.

[hsifeng.livejournal.com]

Thanks, I will give him the heads up in case he is interested in checking it out.

[hsifeng.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the name honey!

[fishnetumbrella.livejournal.com]

i don't know what an SCA group is and i have never been to a RenFaire.
do they have food there? momma likes food...
i'll go hide under my rock now ;)

[bippimalin.livejournal.com]

I've always liked the SCA since it's something that becomes what you make of it. Like for example it could become something that takes all of your time and money, but it's possible to also be something that takes a little bit of money two times a a year over two weekends. Most of us playing SCA here in Sweden fall in the middle between the two extremes.

The most important thing to remember is that it's only a game played for fun. I got very caught up in all of this a couple of years ago and I got very dissappointed with some people. Now I'm back, but I have a different attitude about it, so everything works so much better.

The whole stick jock thing is something I'm not much involved with. I have no fighter and my body would fall apart if I started doing it. Some stick jocks are just that, some are really nice people. Same for the knights and other elevated and not elevated members of the SCA. There's always good and bad people in a group.

In the end, why not try it out? See if it's something you'll like. Maybe the local group are a bunch of morons, maybe they are your future best friends. Just remember it's all meant to be fun. If it's not, quit it.

[hsifeng.livejournal.com]

Good points, and thank you for making them. Honestly, the thing that has me the most hopeful is that there seem to be a lot more 'craft based' folks in the SCA than there tend to be in Ren Faire: I am moving in that direction so it makes me happy to think I might be able to connect with others that have the same interests!