Pull Those Pants UP!

[hsifeng]

 

OK,

 

For years I have been coached to believe that German wore their pants with high waists (or at least “above the natural waistline, and certainly higher than most modern men are comfortable with”) during the 16^th century. This assertion appeared to be borne out in the art from the period. For example, from the “German Single Leaf Woodcuts 1500-1550”, Max Geisberg & Walter Strauss:

 

 

And from the back:


 

So today I was trolling through the new-and-improved-but-stinky-for-downloading-images bildindex,  when I was struck by what appeared to be low waist in several extant pairs of pants. This got me curious, so I did some more digging into my own image archives and on several other sites. What I found didn’t jibe with what I have always thought was an accurate statement regarding the height of men’s pants in this period.

 

 

 
Same pair in yellow above, from the back:


 

Look at where the codpiece lands in relation to the waistline in the woodcuts. Now look at where it lands in the extant pants.

 

What gives?

Comments

[afrodyte5150.livejournal.com]

Could there be another garment that covers the gap? Kinda like.. a really, really wide fabric belt? I don't know German clothing well at all, but its a thought.

[sstormwatch.livejournal.com]

Maybe the difference between fashion ideals, as seen in the woodcuts, and fashion reality?

[kass-rants.livejournal.com]

Are we certain that the extant garments were not altered and their waistlines lowered to more "fashionable" levels in later centuries? For example, many items that are now in English museums spent centuries in family dress up boxes, where they were often used as costumes for fancy dress parties. Perhaps in the 19th century, the high waistline was thought ugly, so the owners of the extant garments altered them so they could wear them to parties or on special "historical" ocassions. This would explain the difference.

I fervently believe that high waists were the norm (we see it in more than just Landsknecht woodcuts, but in both English and Italian pictures and sculpture of the same decades).

[jillwheezul.livejournal.com]

The knitted hose supposedly belonged to August von Sachsen who did not inherit the title until 1556. They are likely from that date or afterwards. His inventories are still extant so they perhaps could be found in those, but they are still in manuscript form (grrr).

I also think you are looking at 2 different fashion styles timewise. The waistline moves downward when Charles takes over both Germany and Spain, and the Spanish fashion starts to dominate. The lower hose makes sense because you would want to reduce unecessary bulk under the doublet.

[bedpimp.livejournal.com]

Does this mean we're going to need to make another pants pattern?

I'm not sure I can deal with another weekend of my junk in your face while you poke me with pins quite yet. ;-)