I will never truly understand what two people getting married has to do with the religious beliefs of anyone but those two people. It's like caring if someone keeps Kosher or is a vegetarian. To my mind, if you don't believe in gay marriage, then don't have a gay marriage. It's simple.
My marriage is not recognised by the Catholic Church because I didn't go through their pre-nup training thing. But it doesn't make it less of a marriage.
My husbands take on this: Any church should be able to deny marriage to anyone based on that churches tenants and beliefs. They don’t have to marry you, or they can marry you to your dog. It’s a religious matter and not something for the state to dabble in.
On the other hand, no church should have the right to declare a *contract* between two adults who are citizens of our nation to be illegal. They also shouldn’t be paying for campaign ads one way or the other, unless they would like to be taxed like any other citizen body.
I agree wholeheartedly: I am not trying to get “you” to change your religion, but don’t try to force me to accept your version of morality by making it a law.
To me it clearly violates the separation of church and state. If we don't have a state religion, then the morality of one specific religion shouldn't be written into our laws.
Marriage has always been a civil contract. And any two people of sound mind should be allowed to enter into a civil contract.
it's winning because the yes on prop 8 people are lying: they're saying churches will lose their tax exempt status, and will be subject to lawsuits, and that this will be taught in public schools. all of which are lies.
As for the churches loosing their tax exempt status: If they loose it because they chose to jump into the political arena with funding (which I know they have done for years, and it has always bugged the crap outta me) then I think they *should* be paying taxes. You don’t want to honor the separation of Church and State – then pay up like everyone else or get your non-profit status and stay the hell out of politics.
On the ‘teaching it in schools’ front: You mean, like they talk about racial equality and women’s rights in schools. We are going to teach out kids to respect people of different backgrounds and beliefs.
Gosh….that *is* horrible! I think I will have to vote for that proposition now.
I think a photo collection of all the incredibly happy gay couples who have been married, with a voice over by Ellen Degeneris, would be a good start.
Perhaps with some narration from couples who have had major issues with healthcare and their loved ones wishes for quality of life as a result of their inability to be seen legally as a spouse. Maybe this kind of information, regarding the rights that are specifically being denied to loving fellow human beings, will help get through the hate mongering and fear.
I was thinking more along the lines of history... seeing women holding signs pushing for the right to vote. Seeing black parades pushing for social equality. If it wasn't for equal rights in the 60s, we wouldn't be seeing a biracial man going for President! If it wasn't for our grandmothers or great-grandmothers pushing for the right to vote, neither Hillary Clinton nor Sarah Palin would have been in this year's races.
But change scares people. Who knows where gay marriage will lead people (gasp!), so they feed on the fears people have.
Our nation has gotten over this sort of thing before (thank you for the examples) and I have to believe we can do so again. Even if we take one step back for every two steps forward...
Sorry, but you can't overcome homophobia by subjecting homophobes to homosexuals. You only make the homophobia worse.
The way to break this is by either shifting the frame by showing a straight couple in the "you can't come in here" hospital situation and then saying "how would you feel?" or you make a (false) argument that by limiting anyone's right to marriage will eventually infringe on everyone's right to marry. I say it's a false argument, because the right to marry, one man to one woman, is pretty much unassailable.
Homophobia likely is the reason, with Christianity as a cover. Most socially conservative churches essentially preach homophobia, no matter how much they spew the "hate the sin, love the sinner" BS.
* Set up a personal fundraising page. Email your friends and track their donations online.
* Set an example. Make a donation and ask your family and friends to join you.
The latest tracking polls show that if the election were held today among voters who have seen both our ads and the other side's ads that we would WIN!
Unfortunately, we don't have sufficient funds to get our ads seen by all the voters who’ve seen the other side’s ads. So it's that simple... without more funds we’ll lose.
But we will win if we have enough money to reach voters. So DONATE NOW!
A powerful array of motivated groups have organized against us. Yesterday’s Sacramento Bee reported that:
"Mormons... have emerged as the leading financial contributors to the controversial Nov. 4 ballot measure. Church members have donated about 40 percent of the $22.8 million raised to pass the initiative since July."
What is also unfortunate is that only 30,000 people have donated to the No On 8 campaign compared to the 60,000 who have donated to the other side. In a state with about two million LGBT people, in a country with millions more and tens of millions of straight allies, we have to get everyone to support this fight. If every LGBT person donated we can win!
Yesterday's Sacramento Bee also reported on the sacrifices being made by members of the Yes on 8 campaign:
"That's why Auburn resident David Nielson, 55, is giving... He and his wife, Susan, live on a budget. The couple donated $35,000, he said, 'because some things are worth fighting for.' The couple will forgo a vacation for the next two years and make other sacrifices to pay for their donation, he said."
So, what is your equality worth to you? What is your equality worth to your friends and family? How much will you sacrifice for your own freedom?
We are running out of time. We need your support now. We need the support of your friends and family now. DONATE NOW! FORWARD THIS EMAIL TO ALL OF YOUR CONTACTS!
I like the little old couple who does the 'we raised our children the same....yadda yadda.' It is sweet and real. Is that one getting airtime anywhere but the bay area?
I haven't even seen that one - just the "Mommy, mommy: Teacher told a story where a prince marries a prince and a princess marries a princess" freak out propaganda.
Yes, you conservatives are all correct. We're really just trying to give your kids 'the gay'. This proposition has nothing to do with ensuring that those who are gay get equal treatment. And certainly, we understand that those of you on the far right won't 'let' your kids be gay anyway...
*groan*
Because people would certainly *choose* a lifestyle where they have to pretend to be something they are not in order to win the approval of others. Riiiiight....
it is ridiculous.. I have no recollection about being taught about ANY type of marriage in school. I also have no information on how to teach marriage in school and I just got my bachelors degree in liberal studies. It is a non issue and yet when I went to sub at dry creek in clovis today there were the hate mongering soccer moms standing on the corners with their parents right to choose yes on 8 signs... Just one more reason I need to get a job somewhere else.. I know my ass would get canned if they knew I had a girlfriend
It really means a lot to have that kind of support.... I always kind of knew but I guess I wasnt truly aware until it affected me directly and now I am hyper aware I suppose.... I just want a job where I can be who I am without having to censor that...
Things have already progressed a long way toward equal rights regardless of sexual orientation: Be glad that all of the community support groups and advocacy groups that exist now are around - there was a time where 'in the closet' meant NO ONE could know.
But that doesn't mean we don't have a long march ahead of us yet, and a lot of difficult issues along the way.
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regna
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-14 03:28 pm (UTC)My marriage is not recognised by the Catholic Church because I didn't go through their pre-nup training thing. But it doesn't make it less of a marriage.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-14 04:03 pm (UTC)On the other hand, no church should have the right to declare a *contract* between two adults who are citizens of our nation to be illegal. They also shouldn’t be paying for campaign ads one way or the other, unless they would like to be taxed like any other citizen body.
I agree wholeheartedly: I am not trying to get “you” to change your religion, but don’t try to force me to accept your version of morality by making it a law.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-14 04:34 pm (UTC)Marriage has always been a civil contract. And any two people of sound mind should be allowed to enter into a civil contract.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-14 04:37 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-14 04:17 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-14 04:36 pm (UTC)On the ‘teaching it in schools’ front: You mean, like they talk about racial equality and women’s rights in schools. We are going to teach out kids to respect people of different backgrounds and beliefs.
Gosh….that *is* horrible! I think I will have to vote for that proposition now.
NOT.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-14 08:39 pm (UTC)The No people need a better ad campaign, but I don't know what sort of imagery will negate the lies being pushed by the supporters of 8.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-14 08:45 pm (UTC)Perhaps with some narration from couples who have had major issues with healthcare and their loved ones wishes for quality of life as a result of their inability to be seen legally as a spouse. Maybe this kind of information, regarding the rights that are specifically being denied to loving fellow human beings, will help get through the hate mongering and fear.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-15 01:03 am (UTC)But change scares people. Who knows where gay marriage will lead people (gasp!), so they feed on the fears people have.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-15 03:38 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-15 03:25 am (UTC)The way to break this is by either shifting the frame by showing a straight couple in the "you can't come in here" hospital situation and then saying "how would you feel?" or you make a (false) argument that by limiting anyone's right to marriage will eventually infringe on everyone's right to marry. I say it's a false argument, because the right to marry, one man to one woman, is pretty much unassailable.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-15 03:31 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-15 04:25 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-14 11:58 pm (UTC)~~~
Dear ,
We don't have enough money to get our ads seen by all the voters who've seen the other side's ads.
Without more funds we'll lose.
There are many more who could support us -- if only they are asked.
* Email and call at least 10 friends and ask them to donate. Send them to http://www.noonprop8.com/sacrifice
* Set up a personal fundraising page. Email your friends and track their donations online.
* Set an example. Make a donation and ask your family and friends to join you.
The latest tracking polls show that if the election were held today among voters who have seen both our ads and the other side's ads that we would WIN!
Unfortunately, we don't have sufficient funds to get our ads seen by all the voters who’ve seen the other side’s ads. So it's that simple... without more funds we’ll lose.
But we will win if we have enough money to reach voters. So DONATE NOW!
A powerful array of motivated groups have organized against us. Yesterday’s Sacramento Bee reported that:
"Mormons... have emerged as the leading financial contributors to the controversial Nov. 4 ballot measure. Church members have donated about 40 percent of the $22.8 million raised to pass the initiative since July."
What is also unfortunate is that only 30,000 people have donated to the No On 8 campaign compared to the 60,000 who have donated to the other side. In a state with about two million LGBT people, in a country with millions more and tens of millions of straight allies, we have to get everyone to support this fight. If every LGBT person donated we can win!
Yesterday's Sacramento Bee also reported on the sacrifices being made by members of the Yes on 8 campaign:
"That's why Auburn resident David Nielson, 55, is giving... He and his wife, Susan, live on a budget. The couple donated $35,000, he said, 'because some things are worth fighting for.' The couple will forgo a vacation for the next two years and make other sacrifices to pay for their donation, he said."
So, what is your equality worth to you? What is your equality worth to your friends and family? How much will you sacrifice for your own freedom?
We are running out of time. We need your support now. We need the support of your friends and family now. DONATE NOW! FORWARD THIS EMAIL TO ALL OF YOUR CONTACTS!
In Solidarity,
Geoff
(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-15 12:06 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-15 12:57 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-15 02:29 pm (UTC)Yes, you conservatives are all correct. We're really just trying to give your kids 'the gay'. This proposition has nothing to do with ensuring that those who are gay get equal treatment. And certainly, we understand that those of you on the far right won't 'let' your kids be gay anyway...
*groan*
Because people would certainly *choose* a lifestyle where they have to pretend to be something they are not in order to win the approval of others. Riiiiight....
(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-15 12:52 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-15 03:39 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-15 03:54 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-10-15 02:26 pm (UTC)But that doesn't mean we don't have a long march ahead of us yet, and a lot of difficult issues along the way.