I *AM* A Pretty, Pretty, Princess…

[hsifeng]

OK folks, now for that other project I mentioned in my last post about Schaube. The dress.

It is time for new garb; my old garb is lovely but no longer fits, and I am sort of itching to try out some sewing ideas with a new Rock. The first question, as always, is what dress to make. I love my ‘T-front’ camp dress…but technically I have one of those, and making another of the same dress isn’t really inspiring me at the moment.

So what to do?

Well, the idea of making a ‘pretty, pretty princess’ dress has been cooking in the back of my brain for some time now; but not one of the more common “Saxon Princess” designs with the lacing over the plastron/stomacher* (as femkederoas can attest, there are many other “SP” variations that are lovely and not so typically recreated). While I clearly have thoughts on those styles that I would like to explore (clicky, clicky…) I am still a bit loathe making one for me at this point.

But, I am in love with the high collars.

girlish sigh and much fluttering of hands

To be clear, I am looking for things like this:

Max Ginsberg’s “Single Leaf Woodcuts, V. I”; Hans Sebald Beham; Women and Knaves


Max Ginsberg’s “Single Leaf Woodcuts, V. I”; Jorg Breu, the Elder; 1530; Smelling the Roast


Max Ginsberg’s “Single Leaf Woodcuts, V. IV”; Erhard Schoen; 1519; Anne of Bohemia and Hungary, Later wife of Archduke Ferdinand of Austria



Max Ginsberg’s “Single Leaf Woodcuts, V. IV”; Virgil Solis; 1550; Christine of Saxony


NOT for things like this:

Max Ginsberg’s “Single Leaf Woodcuts, V. III”; Erhard Schoen; 1535; Lansquenet and Wife



Why not the latter image? Well, that high necked design actually appears to be a partlet** being worn over a dress rather than a high necked dress (for those non-Germanic costumers, think early Henrician outer covering or Flemish over cover). This was pretty common in the period, and you find examples of if all over the place and in every class of person from peasant through noble.

Currently this high-collared image is the most inspiring me:

Max Ginsberg’s “Single Leaf Woodcuts, V. I”; Hans Sebald Beham; Army's Train, Two Carts with Provisions



But of course, the lack of any frontal-portion in the shot leaves me wondering just how the bodice closes and what the shaping on the overall ‘neckline’ is.

mutters to self about lack of 3-D imaging in the 16th century

So, if you have thoughts, images, etc. to share when it comes to non-stomacher versions of high necked dresses – send em! I am not worrying about this dress fitting the normal ‘camp follower’ mold (although, it will be predominantly wool because that is what I have gobs of on hand), so if your samples are high-class it is fine by me! *wink*
 


Regardless of the dress I choose, I think I am going to finally try out attack_laurel’s cartridge pleating method. Even though I will be working in wool, and not silk, I am excited to see what I get for results.



*coughthe historical German term is Brusttuck/Brustfleckcough
**coughthe historical German term is Gollarcough

Comments

[hobbitomm.livejournal.com]

How about a Mary Stuart style?

Along the lines of http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/1/1f/20080518123656!Mary_Stuart_Queen.jpg

She went for high collars quite a lot, iirc, or is she too late for you?

[hsifeng.livejournal.com]

Mary's style is lovely, and quite drool worthy, but is a bit more French than I am looking for. I would like my inspiration garment to be solidly in 'Germanic' territory. However, THANK YOU for sharing! :)

[love3angle.livejournal.com]

I'd dive into Michaella's Frazzled Frau site... I know she has done much research into non-plastron style regional German dresses...

http://frazzledfrau.glittersweet.com/

The Hungary dress is slightly different than the usual, but not high-necked:
http://frazzledfrau.glittersweet.com/mary/index.htm

These pages have lots of non-plastron goodies!
http://frazzledfrau.glittersweet.com/bigsleeves.htm
http://frazzledfrau.glittersweet.com/othergerman.htm

[hsifeng.livejournal.com]

*head desk*

OF COURSE! I didn't even think about Michaella's site. I. Am. An. Idiot.

Thank you for the reminder sweetie!

[hsifeng.livejournal.com]

*claps hands in delight*

This is more like it:

Nicolas de Neuschatel, Bildis einer Dame
(http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/hsifeng/16th%20C%20Images/?action=view&current=neuschatelwoman.jpg)

I really do like this, high neck with a 'front flap' style. And I don't think I have seen anyone do this yet.

Very similar to the Christine of Saxony and Anne of Bohemia and Hungary styles in my original post. I believe the Tudor Taylor has a dress with this 'type' of front closure (buttoning to one side) that could be modified...

Hum....how to get this to work...

[pinkdiamond.livejournal.com]

:) It's one I've been pondering about ever since I photocopied that :) I may be able to find a better copy if you are interested? My photocopy can be scanned at a higher resolution anyway. I'll look to see what book I took her from as well :) I think it was Die Mode.*embarrassed about all the typos on my site*

[hsifeng.livejournal.com]

I may be able to find a better copy if you are interested?

Really? Thank you! That would be wonderful as would the title of the book it came from if you can find it. I really appreciate your help, and your site (which is a wonderful resource, typos and all).

;)

[peacockdress.livejournal.com]

Ooh, I like it! And I'm all for doing stuff that no-one else is doing, as you know!

[hsifeng.livejournal.com]

Honestly, I love a technical challenge. Even though my seamstress ‘skills’ are mostly trial-and-error based rather than learned. *chuckle* If I get crackin’, you might even see a dress based on this one at CoCo in July. *grin*

[peacockdress.livejournal.com]

*cracks whip*

[hsifeng.livejournal.com]

Keep your eyes on this space. ;)

[jillwheezul.livejournal.com]

Okay, a couple of things about this picture. I wrote to Althorp (as in Princess Di) to ask about it, and it isn't in their possession. Since the source book was written so long ago, it must have been sold at some point.

What I can tell you about it is that the artist attribution may be wrong and it doesn't seem quite his style. And he practiced in Nurnberg mostly it seems. The ONLY instances I have found of the backflap like this one on a steuchlein are painted by Conrad Faber of the women of Frankfurt. They also liked embroidered covers on their heads which makes me wonder if it belongs in his catalog.

[hsifeng.livejournal.com]

*grins*

Have I ever told you that I sometimes feel like the Watson to your Holmes? While my research paints broad strokes, your detail work is amazing. Thank you for sharing this information with me. The original attribution came from the frazzledfrau site’s title of the work and pinkdiamond has offered to do a bit more digging so maybe we’ll uncover some more pearls in this project.

So…not sure if this woman is from the area of Hesse or Bavaria…hum. Still no definitive ‘region’ for this style of dress coming clear in all this. *makes a face*

[love3angle.livejournal.com]

yes Yes YES! I expect to see this at CoCo! What colors are you thinking? :-) *claps hands in excitement*

[hsifeng.livejournal.com]

Well...it won't be *exactly* this dress. But certainly inspired by this style of bodice!

Color swatches will be forthcoming in another post. Right now I am still figuring out what I want to make. Thankfully, I have a stockpile of wool...

See you at CoCo! ;)

[brickhousewench.livejournal.com]

I've been looking at the woman on the left in the first image (Hans Sebald Beham; Women and Knaves) myself, but because the top is brocade and the bottom is plain I'd been assuming that it was a collared jacket/doublet/wams over a gown. I think the woman on the right is wearing a gollar.

When I have time to make myself a collared dress, it will be one of those Cranach gowns with a collar like Princess Diana’s Elvis dress. =D

[hsifeng.livejournal.com]

The separate colors for bodice and skirts isn't common, but there are examples of it (if I recall correctly, they become more common later in the 16th century, but still not as common as single color gowns). I don't know if this is an example of that or not, but the slashing in the sleeves of the left hand woman makes me think it is a bodice/double (underlayer) and not a jacket/coat (outer layer). I would totally agree that the woman on the right is wearing a short cape-style Gollar.

I do love the oft-recreated Saxon Princess dresses (the Cranach style gown with the lacing over the plastron/Brustfleck) that you are contemplating making. That is the style that I debated the construction of so much in my 'clicky, clicky' links.

I am slowly getting my mind around the style of high collared dress I am going to attempt. am nervous because I don't think anyone else has done this version - so I am going out on a limb. But I think that may end up being part of the fun! ;)

I am totally looking forward to seeing your dress diaries when you get to work on yours!