hsifeng: (www.crackafuckingbook.com)
hsifeng ([personal profile] hsifeng) wrote2011-05-25 09:25 am
Entry tags:

Research Cheater

O Great LJ Hivemind...

I come to you with a request for information. A friend has recently been being pestered to produce evidence showing that 16th C German men *did not* wear netted gold cauls under their battle helmets.

My initial thought upon hearing this was, “Are you crazy? Who would wear an item THAT EXPENSIVE under their helm?” I mean… gold…netted…re-embroidered over…? Are you nuts?

My second thought was, “I thought we normally tried to prove that someone *did* wear an item rather than the opposite? I mean, prove to me that 16th C German men didn’t wear fairy wings under their backplates!”

*eye roll*

Then I realized; I have seen dozens of Landsknecht re-enactors wear these things around during the day while in their breastplates over the years. I don’t think I’ve seen any of them smash a helmet down over the top…but maybe that is where this guy got the initial idea. OK, so it may just be an issue of monkey see, monkey do. As for actual evidence of this taking place in the 16th C on the other hand, if there are 16th C images of un-helmed but armored men wearing these in portraiture, my guess would be that the images in question are “I’m Showing Off My Armor” shots; the addition of the “gelbhaube”/caul as a way to enhance the overall look-at-me-and-my-pimp-gear image, rather than to indicate that the caul was part of an armor rig in some way.

Then again, I don’t know that this particular re-enactment-ism has ever been really researched.

So I put it to ya’ll; anyone out there have any details (wardrobe inventory items, images of extant woolen arming caps, narrative descriptions, etc.) that might help clarify this issue with some data?


[identity profile] brickhousewench.livejournal.com 2011-05-25 05:26 pm (UTC)(link)
Note that almost all the images I've seen of men wearing gold cauls with armor are either 1) saints or 2) very wealthy men.

So I wouldn't expect it to be an item worn by common soldiers.

[identity profile] hsifeng.livejournal.com 2011-05-25 06:43 pm (UTC)(link)
I am 100% with you on this. The next question being; what class of soldier wore which types of armor? Brestplates are seen more than suits; but how often do we see helms/helmets?

[identity profile] brickhousewench.livejournal.com 2011-05-25 08:48 pm (UTC)(link)
No fair asking questions I can't answer at work! (Just wait until I get home to my image library!!!!) =P

[identity profile] hsifeng.livejournal.com 2011-05-25 09:53 pm (UTC)(link)
This is exactly how I felt when this item landed in my in-box this morning. *chuckle*

What this discussion needs is some image links!

[identity profile] brickhousewench.livejournal.com 2011-05-26 01:41 am (UTC)(link)
Hairnets (gold and otherwise)
Durer men’s bath (um, no clothes so maybe not so helpful…)
Durer’s Paumgartner Altarpiece (saints on both wings, wearing armor but no helmets)
Durer Knight and Landsknecht (no armor)
Cranach’s Martyrdom of St Catherine (Hairnet, no armor)
Baldung’s Martyrdom of Saint Sebastian (two hairnets, one under the red hat)
Baldung –Count Christoph I of Baden Munich (Possible hairnet under a hat)
Cranach portrait of a man in an embroidered cap (not a soldier)
Burgkmair – Portrait of Jacob Fugger (not a soldier)
Jorg Breu (possible hairnet on the guy in the upper left)

Although they’re not common, I have been able to find a fair number of helmets on soldiers, but you can’t tell if they are wearing anything (coif, schlappe, haub) under the helmet. Almost all of the soldiers wearing helmets were also wearing full armor (gorget, breastplate, pauldrons, vambraces, and cuisses), so I would assume that they’re probably officers.

Not sure what conclusions you can draw from these. Images of hairnets show up in all sorts of places, and on all sorts of people. And as someone else mentioned, I have no idea how you'd prove a negative.

Oh, and while the Saint Max web site appears to be down at the moment, they have an article there about Landsknecht hairstyles.
Edited 2011-05-26 01:41 (UTC)

Re: What this discussion needs is some image links!

[identity profile] hsifeng.livejournal.com 2011-05-26 03:48 pm (UTC)(link)
Thank you for reminding me about the Landsknecht hairstyles link at St. Max. I will have to go check that out when their site it back up!

Almost all of the soldiers wearing helmets were also wearing full armor (gorget, breastplate, pauldrons, vambraces, and cuisses), so I would assume that they’re probably officers.


This is what I was thinking as well; that most helmets are on folks in full armor and that full armor tends to be pricey. Even so, wearing a gold caul under a helm seems like taking a Porche to a motocross event. Someone might do it, but it isn't likely...

Re: What this discussion needs is some image links!

[identity profile] brickhousewench.livejournal.com 2011-05-26 07:31 pm (UTC)(link)
I'd forgotten about the hairstyles link myself. But it came up somewhere recently. The reason I mentioned it was because I seem to recall that the majority of the hairstyles were short. *Checks my PDF backup of the site* Yep, the vast majority of hairstyles are short. Too short to require a hair net.

Which would make sense, as short hair is easier to care for. Especially when you've got large numbers of people living in close quarters. Less lice etc.

Re: What this discussion needs is some image links!

[identity profile] hsifeng.livejournal.com 2011-05-26 09:21 pm (UTC)(link)
*psst* Could you pass me that PDF backup? I can message you with my e-mail address if needed....

;)

Re: What this discussion needs is some image links!

[identity profile] brickhousewench.livejournal.com 2011-05-26 10:44 pm (UTC)(link)
It's huge (1,200 pages, 50 MB file), so e-mail might choke on it. But we can try if you want!

Re: What this discussion needs is some image links!

[identity profile] hsifeng.livejournal.com 2011-05-26 11:25 pm (UTC)(link)
Sent you a message...