hsifeng: (Sudlerin)
Just so that I can warehouse them somewhere:


Love these from [livejournal.com profile] ladykalessia:
Medieval and Renaissance Accessories
Hold Your Fire (period fire vessels & modern versions thereof)

....all the things from [livejournal.com profile] mmcnealy...

...and these from [livejournal.com profile] claughter713...
Germanfest (German costume inspirations)
Rustic Kitchen Lust (because a girl can dream of a cooking hearth)

...and finally, from [livejournal.com profile] vanagnessayem:
Burgundian Inspirations
15th C V Necked Gowns (really gowns and accessories)
15th C German (clothing, accessories and household items)
16th C German (period image sources)
Recreations German (things people have produced)
German Pearled Headbands/Headwear (just what the title says)

Just found this while poking around...

Any other boards out there I should be following for landsknecht related materials?

PS: You can find me over on that site under this same user name (hsifeng)... ;)
hsifeng: (Landsknecht)

Interesting thing about (German) reenactment: Not all the traditions we hold so dear come from actual history. Some of them just come from our history. For example, take the flag tearing ceremony that many (most?) 16th C groups who portray German Landsknecht take part in at the end of their campaign year or their 'main' reenactment event.*

My own introduction to this tradition came by way of my involvement with Heiligesturm Fahnlein in SoCal. After a long and difficult seven weekend run out at our primary faire (proceeded by at least four weeks of build up and with at least two weeks of tear down to follow), the folks in our camp all gathered under our main shade structure and settled in for our Hauptman to give his closing remarks.

This was my first year in the guild, and while I wasn't new to reenactment, or military reenactment, I had formed incredibly close bonds with this group in a very short time. My friend A and I had shown up at the event working for a booth and swearing we'd never belong to an acting body at faire again and WHAM!; less than three weeks later we were paid members and already plotting our first German costumes. 

I drank that Kool-Aid. I drank it all up! chuckle


So here I sat, with one of my oldest friends and 40 or so of my newest friends (even now some of my BEST friends). And I watched our Hauptmann - a man who personifies many of the qualities that earn the title Strong, Silent Type - spend the next hour or so calling every member up one by one, sharing a drink with them, saying something to them privately and then saying something wonderful about them to the group. And after each person had been hugged and thanked for their work on behalf of the guild, they were given a piece of the flag - freshly torn from it's pole. 

We ended that hour laughed out, cried out, drunk and prouder than could ever seem reasonable to be the owner of a tiny strip of partially-dyed-and-painted silk. 

History in action? Perhaps. Although the actual historical documentation has yet to be produced in any group that I have spoken to. Vague references to more modern flag ceremonies, half-remembered nuggets from books of questionable pedigree, and flat out SHOCK on behalf of some of the first German reenactors here in the USA ("They TEAR their FLAG? Why would you DO that?!?") seem to be the norm with this one.

But you know what? I don't fucking care.

This tradition, more than almost any other in Landsknecht reenacting, has formed a bond between people of disparate groups and in far flung locations. Not from around here but you marched with us for a weekend? What's your address? Next thing you know a piece of tattered silk shows up in the mail, or tied to your arm, or handed to you by a friend in passing (along with a message, "We missed you on the last weekend, but the Hauptmann wanted you to have this...").

And BAM!, every memory of every flag you've ever marched under comes welling back. All the bullshit, and the ecstasy, and the laughter and the tears. Every moment.

And you hold on to that beautiful little chunk of cloth for as long as you can.

Because it's your version of a family photo.

And this is one of the best families you've ever known.  

NOW. For some actual 'history' on this tradition, ripped fresh from the pages of Facebook - that old teller of all things true and a few you just think are funny.

Which Came First, the Northern or the Southern Tradition?

Well, apparently it started up North with Shawn Galbreath in 1989 or 1990. Shawn recalls, "I believe it was my first year as Hauptmann, but it was so long ago that we had Dinosaur Leather Armor. I was also honored with a piece of the first Kriegshund (Southern German Fahnlein) flag." Scott Moore added later on that "Michael M" was the painter of that flag, which Shawn confirmed. 

Julia Adams agrees that Northern started the flag tearing, with Southern Germans in Kreigshund fahnlein following suit a few years later. Rio Kamimura goes on to say that it happened the first time down South, "...during group notes at the end of closing day, RPFS 1992. It was the first year that our assembled company had officialy presented itself to be known as Kriegshund Fahnlein.... Presiding over that first flag tearing ceremony was Lloyd Winter, Hauptman."

Regardless of who started this idea, it is now a well founded tradition with roots going back almost 25 years. And apparently, it is a practice that has been shipped back to Europe, with Luis Gonzalez reporting that at least one group he is familiar with in Sweden has torn their Blutfahne - although this may have been the result of an attempt to help avoid an international reenactment incident as a German reenactors dog had apparently peed on the fahn accidentally...those wacky Europeans... grin

*PS: It seems that the actual Germans doing Landsknecht reenactment think we are bit bat-shit nuts for this little tradition. I think they may be right. Then again, bat-shit nuts is one of the things we American Landknechts do best... chortle

hsifeng: (Landsknecht)
I have been harassing Robert Harbin about webbing his Landsknecht kit constructions techniques FOR YEARS. If you don’t know Rob, you should. He does amazing leatherwork, knife construction, good basic wooden kit items (boxes, etc) and is generally one of the most “screw-it,-if-I-want-it-I-should-learn-to-make-it” people I know.

But he sorta hates the idea of having a blog.

So I have told him that if he types up information periodically, I would re-post it in here as an archive point for folks to use.

The first item (inspired by recent discussion on the GermanRenCostume list on Yahoo) is the Lederwams. This is the basic piece of clothing/light armor seen worn as an ‘over vest’ in many images of Landsknecht. If you’d like corresponding images of these items for reference, let me know and I can post them to you or add them to this thread.



Hi all- lots of info on the ledergollars (leder wams is more correct, I've been told) especially for folks looking for a pattern. Guess what? There IS no pattern out there!

The main reason for the lack of a pattern is that this is a fitted garment, often made of a single piece of material, and fitted to go over the main garments. So- first off- if you take some time and look at the woodcuts, you'll see very few seams evident- almost always there are seams on the sides, under the arms. You see a few with a seam in the center back, a couple with seams on the shoulder tops- and those same ones have an added shoulder cover as well. Note- in all of the 'cuts I've looked at, only a very few have the shoulder seams and added shoulders~

Now- on to materials. The leather of the period was typically much "softer" than what we get today, as a result of the processes. It would start hard as a board of wood, but would soften quickly. The slow tanning process is a discussion for another thread, maybe later! In any case, you would almost always have leather for these being from a cow or bull- a "buffalo". It was fairly thick, and usually split down to the "right" thickness. Full hides could be as much as 10mm thick, sometimes! However- for us, that would be a bit much, so we'll stick with one of the following leathers- an upholstery leather, usually @3 oz thick, a tooling leather, between 3 and 4 oz, or finally either a latigo or oil-finish (blacksmith or utility) hide- but those are hard to find in less than 5-7 oz.

With each leather, you will have some slightly different work ahead of you. For the Upholstery stuff, you'll need to de-glaze it. This is just using acetone to take the shiny finish off, or you'll look like some shiny fetish weirdo... For the tooling leather, you will need to beat the heck out of it to soften it- you can do this before or after making it, but if you don't it'll be stiff, and will not shape to you at all. For the latigo/utility hides, you'll also need to beat it up to soften it- but you'll have a much longer time doing it. A fast way to do so is to use your dryer, on air dry- NO HEAT!!! - and throw in a couple a couple of clean sneakers. In an hour or 2 you'll have much softer leather! You will need to pull it out and re-stuff it a several times in this process, however.

OK- so now, the pattern. As I said before- "there is no pattern". Let me amend that by saying "there is no pattern, there is only DRAPE". By this, I mean you must make the pattern yourself. This is actually easy, but you will need help, a good pair of scissors, a large piece of cloth to make into the pattern, and well, yourself in your garb. What you will do is simply cut a head hole, and a small neck slit- (do not make it too big! Just enough to fit you noggin!). Now, starting from your back, draw carefully (I use chalk or pencil- as sharpie may bleed through onto your garb~) where your back dags (half-circle thingies~) are going to be, and note the side seams, under the arms. I actually will pin it in place, over-sized a bit- then will cut the excess off. Be careful not to cut too much around the shoulder, as it starts down a ways on the back- again, look at the woodcuts. O.K.- now it gets a little tricky. I make these with a single piece of leather- the finished pattern will look like a lumpy letter "Y", so the front is well... tricky...

For the front- start by slitting the poncho, which is marked and pinned to your sides, down the center front. Now, overlap the pieces, whichever way you wish- there doesn't seem to be any rule here, really. Turn the font pieces over now- if you intend to do so on the finished piece (kinda like a collar, you see several different kinds in the 'cuts). Now- for the sides- mark and pin them, just like you did the back, again a bit oversized. cut the excess off, and then make you front dags- either the short or the long ones. For the long ones you see gunners wearing- I add those pieces with extra fabric and pins, so I can get the body fit better first~ also note that the long dags are on the OPPOSITE piece- so the right side of the lederwams has the attached left leg cover, and vice-versa, as they overlap. Some of the long-dag lederwams also seem to have a tie for holding the long front dag onto the leg. Up to you, though.

Finally, and I know this sounds like no help at all- you kinda mark and cut the shoulder to look like you want. Make it big, going far down the front and back arm hole, as it looks like most modern reproductions make this too small, and it looks kinda different from the 'cuts.

Now- on to the scary part. First off- if the fabric doesn't look right, do it again. Buy flat sheets from Goodwill for like a buck for you patterns. Much less $$ than leather, and only a bit annoying if you flub it! Once the pattern is good- get you leather- and now you have one more decision to make- do you want your smooth outside or rough outside? It seems like all extant (later period, I know~) buff coats but one were done with the rough side out. I think this is so the leather and cloth can move over each other better, and it really does, I might add- but that is conjecture. What I Do know however- is that leather bleeds less color from the smooth side. Up to you, in any case- I'll not argue in either case, so you're safe there. Basically, just lay the pattern on the leather, and cut it out. You need about 1/4" or so for seam allowance- but ONLY on the sides, unless you needed to add seams elsewhere. I'm not going into that here, however~ ask if you need... To sew the sides together, you will use a "saddle stitch", where you pass the thread through each hole twice. I pre-punch the holes using as small a punch chisel as I can- which is about 1/32" for me- as I made the punch. You can get 1/16" from Tandy, but only in a set with replaceable heads. Still, not too bad. This seam is going to be just like a fabric seam, and "opens" to the inside. Do not over-tighten the stitches, or it'll pucker the leather. Also- use linen thread, as the synthetic types will possibly tear the leather, over time. I'd rather re-sew the whole 10" seam than have to bodge it back together from a tear.

Finally- the last 2 steps! Yay! First- you'll need to make your closures. Thankfully- this is easy. Attach a leather thong to where the overlaps are on the waist with 2 holes, then make corresponding holes in the right and left flaps of the outer portion. You may want to add a second set of thongs for if you wear it over your breastplate as well, sometimes. Second- decide on the slashing pattern you want, if any. You ought to be wearing the garment with all you stuff on under it- and use chalk, and another person to help. For leather, you may need to open the cuts a bit, but not too much. By opening the cut, I mean making it look like () rather than just /. Some slashes will not look right until it's been worn a while- so take your time. You can always add them later, or open them more after a while- but adding leather back is, well, not going to work.

So, there it is- my method of making a lederwams, as best as I can write it. If you have any questions, let me know.


Robert in Reno
hsifeng: (Sudlerin)

I was recently asked by a friend to describe how I had made one of the first Steuchlein’s I ever attempted. I make no bones about the fact that this is *not* a historically correct version – although the end results are nice looking.

What you will need:

Get a large, plastic coffee tin lid. The old fashioned Yuban or Folgers type. This need to be clear/white in color. I know more modern Folger’s lids are red… You can also use a smaller macramé hoop (metal ring).

Heavy weight buckram; about 1/2 yard.

Batting or rope roving (see below for description of use to get an idea of how much you might want)

Linen fabric (see note for batting above)

Silk/light weight veil fabric (see note for linen above)

Historical pins; I recommend between 8 - 20 depending on your budget (available at a number of online retailers)

Here are the basics:

Using the lid/ring as base, build a buckram ‘flower pot’; the lid should be the smallest point, with the buckram flaring out from that size to a size that will fit your head (behind your ears). You can cut the buckram so that it fits around your ears more easily once your basic shape is done. The angle that you cut it at will determine where the ‘crown’ of your hat sits (bigger and higher up in earlier period, smaller and more toward the back of the head is later period).

At the front peak of the flowerpot (the point where it rests on the top of your head) sew in a haircomb. This will keep the whole thing in place.

Once your flowerpot is done, use batting (or ‘rope roving’ – the sort of batting that comes in a coil) to pad the area around the base of your flowerpot (nearest to the lid/hoop) to whatever size you want; again bigger = earlier, smaller = later.

Now, you will want to find some pretty linen fabric (maybe with a woven in pattern of some sort). Make sure you have at least one layer of linen that is thick enough to use as a base that will conceal the support structure you have built. You will drape this fabric over the flowerpot, making sure to leave enough overlapping the front edge to cover your forehead. I usually start out with a square of linen that is my head measurement + 6” wide and my center forehead, back over the top of the flowerpot to the base of my neck + 6” long.

To begin draping, I recommend that you pin this fabric in place at approximately the same spot that you put the hair comb (don’t forget to leave the extra draped for covering your forehead!). Once this is secured, begin making pleats over the ‘base’ of your flowerpot. These can be arranged in a number of ways, but should gather the fabric in to the base of your neck.

Try the hat on. If the fabric is arranged to your liking, you are ready to sew it into place. If not, play with it until you like the way it looks.

Once the fabric is draped (and remember, you may be doing more than one layer if your ‘pretty linen’ needs a heavier underlayer in order to cover your hats framework) hand-sew your pleats in place. You should do this so that there are a minimum of stitches showing on the outer layer of the hat. This can be accomplished in a number of ways, I recommend sewing on the underside of your pleats, securing them to your batting layer.

Once this is done, you can make the extra gathered fabric at the base of your nape neater by cutting away any excess, and then covering the cut ends with a rectangular ‘pouch’ of the same fabric. You see this sort of rectangle on the backside of a number of these hats.

Finally, get yourself some very light (silk?) veil fabric. Cut and hem this to about the same size as your linen layers (maybe a skosh bigger). I recommend not sewing this layer on, but instead using tiny brass pins (as were used in the period) to secure it and it’s pleating to your hat. 


Out of sense of fair warning, I must say that the disadvantage of this style are:

1)      It is not easy to clean, and you will end up with ‘ring around the forehead’. You could solve this with an internal layer that you can take off to launder more easily;

2)       This version does not have a lot of ‘squish’ factor without doing some permanent damage to the hat. You may want a hatbox for storage, and wearing a Tellerbarret (pizza hat) over this version would be difficult in a larger size.

 The results will probably look something like this (dont' judge, it was my first German outfit...*chuckle*):

hsifeng: (Landsknecht)
There are a number of common woodcuts from the 16th C. to which we have either surviving colored originals or descriptions of those originals from text sources (many thanks to [livejournal.com profile] jillwheezul - who completed the translation below for another member at this international Landsknecht site):

Color woodcut images available here:

I have also saved these here in case the above site moves.


For those just tuning in, this color information comes from 'Römisch Kaiserlicher Majestät Kriegsvölker in Zeitalter der Landsknechte'. The author,August Johann Grafen Breunner-Enkevoerth says that part of the originial plates are painted, and then gives color details.

I translate the ones that match St. Max' images as follows:


Barett red, doublet yellow, leg coverings red, green and yellow, under the knee right red, left yellow, the shoes, as always in black.


Barett red with black, doublet green, leg clothing red-brown, on the left yellow underlay and below the knee red and white stripes.


Red barett, blue haube; white rock with red bands, the doublet underneath yellow with blue showing through, gold work on the shirt collar, under the knees blue and yellow stripes with red garters, gold chain, green sword belt.


Red barret, blue haube, white doublet with blue showing through, leg coverings blue and white striped, right leg with red overgarment, left with red trimming, green knee garters.


Red-brown barett, blue and white striped doublet, leg covering blue and white with red hose over the top, yellow sword belt and knee garters.


Blue barret, red and white doublet and leg covering, green under the slits on the latter, right blue and left yellow knee garters, yellow sword belt.


Red barett, the entire ensemble from head to foot is yellow and red striped, the slits are dark blue, the knee garters green.


Red barett, the sleeves of the doublet and the leg covering in yellow, the former with red underneath, the slit over clothing on the chest and legs is blue and white striped, the chest has red and white showing through the slits, red knee garters and red sword belt.


Clas and Heinz Winterrgron are the names of these individuals

Clas: Barett, hanging on the back green with red band and black feathers, the right side of the double and leg clothing is yellow and white (with red underneath), the left in purple red with blue between the slits.

Son Heinz: felt barett, black doublet with blue and red sleeves, yellow leg covering over the knees, under the knees blue, on the left red.


(note he has a peacock feather) – Red barett with green feather, blue and white striped from the left hand over the shoulder to the chest to the feet, red appearing under the openings; the right arm, doublet (runs under the blue and white stripes) and left leg over garment yellow, beneath, dark red, red knee garters.


Red barett with green band; black doublet with light gray folded back collar, The right sleeve red with blue underneath, left (from outside in) blue, yellow, red, blue striped; shirt with gold work, the right leg covering is green over and under, light blue on the knee, the left leg blue, red, yellow, blue striped, knee garter on right is red, left green.


The physician: blue barett with gold medallion; shirt with gold work, red doublet; the leg covering red and white striped with blue between the openings, left, yellow with red under, green sword belt.

The servant: blue barett; black doublet with yellow sleeves, leg covering of yellow and blue on both legs (blue on the top of one, yellow on the top of another); red purse, the lining black


The knecht: purple-red barett, the clothing on the left arm and right leg (same on the backside) blue with red between the openings; the other half is striped in red yellow, white, red, with green between the slits; knee garters left - red, right – blue.

The knave: green barett; red double with blue in the slits, the upper and lower leg coverings in yellow, above the knees is flesh colored; knee bands blue.


Blue barett with yellow and red feathers, red haube, dark purple-red doublet, blue and yellow striped leg covering with light blue beneath; red knee garters; gray horse, black trappings with red and yellow tassels.


Blue barett, yellow haube: red gown with green banding; leg coverings black with blue over hose; red saddle pouch, black horses, black trappings with green tassels, yellow buttons.


Red barett with white feather; the clothing on the right hand side is green with red underneath; left white with red, red knee garters.


Blue barett, yellow doublet with red underneath, the leg cover – right yellow with red underneath, left blue and white striped, also with red underneather, red knee garters.


Man: white barett, red haube, leather collar and hip covering; yellow double with red underneath; the leg coverings counter changes red and blue striped or yellow with red underneath; knee garters right – green, left – yellow.

Woman: red and blue barett, haube and hemd white, red goller, green gown with yellow at the hands, and red trimming at the bottom, white socks.
hsifeng: (www.crackafuckingbook.com)

[livejournal.com profile] jillwheezul (my personal garb goddess as many of you are aware), dug up this original text information in regards to soldierly sumptuary law information from Max. In addition, she also dug up the original 'their lives are crappy, let them have fun quote'. DHF’s Christopher Triechel provided translation services, so what you are getting below is a copy from the GRC list with a combo of both [livejournal.com profile] jillwheezul and Chris' work.

Thanks folks!

Now mind you, sumptuary laws were often hard to enforce even in the cities! However, this sorta makes it more apparent that this wasn't a permitted practice, just an example of soliders stretching their limits as they could, when they could. That doesn't seem so strange at all....

>> Original Text from [livejournal.com profile] jillwheezul with Chris' translations inserted in line <<

Hi again,

I've checked out Erika Thiel's Geschichte des Kostüms, a nice general costume history. Being that it is German, it does have some good particular German costume reference.

Erika actually quotes the bandied about sumptuary law (which was quoted elsewhere as 1503), but doesn't cite a reference - only that it was said: "Laßt sie doh gehen, bei ihrem unseligen und Kümmerliche Leben muß man ihnen ein Spaß gönnen". (Let them go at their unholy and pitiful life. One has to allow them some fun - C.T.). That pretty much jives with the translation in the Osprey book.

Another rather exciting piece is the what appears to be a full quotation of the Emperor's 1536 Sumptuary ordinance. I'm going to quote the part here on the Kriegsleuten. Anyone who'd like, please feel free to jump in and translate because I am deep in study of the 1548 wedding costume of the Duke of Saxony. It's in the period language. [So far I believe I see that Captains, fendrich and musterherr can dress like an honorable burger.]

Von Krigsleuten.
About the Soldiers

Item die kriegssleut so eyner eyn Ritter oder Edelman were sollen vnd moegen sich als oben von Rittern vn Edelleuten vermelt tragen.

In that the soldiers, one being a knight the other a nobleman and if they want shall clothe themselves as knights or nobility.

Were er aber von geringerm standt dann vom Adel herkommen vn eyn hauptmanschaft fenderich musterherr er dergleichen hohe ampt get woellen wir jm zulassen sich zutrage wi eyn ehrlicher Burger von geschlecten in stetten wie oben gesetzt ist.

But is he of common origin and then by a noble given a captaincy or fahndrich or muster master or of the same high office As such we wish to give him the right to wear that which a Burger of like standing as above mentioned may wear.

Were er aber eyn gemeyner knecht so er sich in seins herrn gebieten vnd oberkeyten diser ordnung vnd seinem standt gemess halten.

But he who is a common servant and who offers himself up to his master and his superiors must remain in his order and same standing

Aber eyn kriegesman so eyn dienst hett oder hauptman vnd im Zugk were vnd des eyn passbort oder urkund würd anzeygen der mag sich nach gestalt der leuff vnd wie jm gelegen kleyden vnd tragen.

But a soldier who has such duty or is captain in the trains and has to show a passport or document, he may as befits him and how he wishes carry and clothe himself.


EDIT: Additional sumptuary information from [livejournal.com profile] jillwheezul (love her!) posted on www.landsknecht.org on 11/18/10 -


Hmm, this might be the source - there is a section on the laws set down at Worms in it. Now, just to find it. Oh, and it also has a section enacted in Augsburg that deals with soldiers, including how many priests per soldier were needed. It starts at section XX (page 51 on the DGF viewer).

From [livejournal.com profile] mmcnealy on the same site on 11/19/10 -


Sumptuary is the English term, the period German term is "Kleidung Ordung" or "Kleyder Ordung"
Here's a link to Magdeburg's clothing ordinances from 1544 "Des Radts der Alten Stadt Magdeburgk Ordnung vbern Ehebruch, Gelüb... which might help with some vocabulary.

From Gottfried (also on landsknect.org) on 1/28/11 -

Out of
Landsknechte by Reinhard Bauman; München 1994 ISBN 3406379710

Sich so zu kleiden, wie es belibte, bzw. auch aus der Not des Feldlebens eine Tugend, nämlich die der >zerhackten< oder >zerhauenen< Tracht zu machen, war durchgesetztes Gewohnheitsrecht der Knechte, gegen das die Kriegsherren schon deshalb nichts unternehmen konnten, weil eine Vereinheitlichung ja nicht von den Knechten getragen werden konnte, und die ganze Landsknechtzeit für eine Uniformierung die Geldmittel fehlten. Individualität in der Bekleidung gehört jedoch vor allem zum Selbstverständnis des freien Kriegsmanns. Der Augsburger Reichstag von 1530 hat mit seiner großen Kleiderordnung (67) deshalb nicht die Landsknechtmode genehmigt, sondern nachträglich und für die Zukunft etwas legitimiert, das durch Verbote nicht mehr zu verhindern war, in einer Ständegesellschaft aber nicht ohne Kodifizierung bleiben konnte: >... eyn kriegesmann / so eyn dienst hett oder hauptman und im Zugk were / ... der mag sich nach gestalt der leuff und wie im gelegen / kleyden und Tragen.< (68)

My Translation:

To dress one self as one pleases or to make out of necessity a virtue of the field life, namely the >slashed< or >hacked< clothing, was enforced Custom by the Knecht, that the Leaders/Warlords could do nothing against because a conformity of dress could not be worn by the Knecht nor could the financing be secured throughout the entire Landsknecht time period. Individuality in dress on the other hand was part of the self-understanding of the free Soldier.
Because of this the Augsburger Reichstag of 1530, with its large sumptuary law(67) did not approve the Landsknecht fashion, but rather, belatedly legitimized, that what in a caste society could not stay without codification and could not be stopped through bans/prohibitions anyways: > a Soldier / so he has a service or a Hauptman in a Train (baggage train) were / … he may in person of the people and as he likes / dress and wear.<(68)

hsifeng: (*Arrrrrrrr!* Sewing Pyrate!)
After finding myself digging through my German groups BBS for old posts on interesting data (the sites Search engine and I don’t get along); I realized that I would be better off just reposting the information here in my journal so that I can tag it to locate with ease when needed. But I don’t want to ‘infect’ my friends list with a bunch of text-only information! So, if you *want* to be included in a filter to get this stuff (like how to make a duct-tape bodice pattern, fitting landsknecht pants from jeans, lists of Marion’s BSB findings, general information on all-things-costume related, etc.) lemme know. I am fine hanging these out there for folks to comment on and kvetch over (many of these posts are *years* old and may need updates!), but I don’t want to do so without folks actually wanting to be involved. Lemme know!
hsifeng: (Sudlerin)
Since this theme keeps coming up in various places, I thought I should set up a blog post with all my favorite bits. This way I will have them 'on hand' when necessary.

Here are some Textiler Hausrat references that [livejournal.com profile] jillwheezulposted on the GermanRenCostume Yahoo group awhile back (inventory listings from that book):

The Texiler Hausrat references:

1507 Frau Michael Behaim has a record of payment of a gulden : "fur ein liderein hirshchen Paar Hosen, meinem Friedrih gein Lyon" recorded in Johannes Kamann "Aus Nurnberger Haushaltungs und Rechnungbuchern des 15. und 16. Jahrhunderts (for a leather deerskin pair of hose, for my Friedrich to go to Lyon in).

1530 Jorg Schober, a Plattner, leaves a record of "1 hirsches par hosen und ain ainliches weyss parchets wames 1." (1 deerskin pair of hose and a single layered white barchent doublet)

1531 Thoman Beck leaves a record for "3 alte paar lidere Hosen und 3 lidere Wamas 1.4.6" (3 old pairs of leather hose and 3 leather doublets).

1603, Linhard Goetz, Baker, leaves in his inventory "1 alte lidern Gesess (upper stocks)" valued at 4 pfund 6 pfennig. (1 old leather upper stocks)

In 1555 the will of Georg Bayer, Grosskaufmann, leaves a "geschnitten Lideres Paar Hosen" worth about 2 gulden. (pair of slashed leather hosen)

1560, the inventory of Christoph Kress (upper class - has left an extant feathered velvet barret) listed "1 alts liders Par Hosen mit Satin unterzogen" (1 old leather pair of hosen with satin laid under them).

Per [livejournal.com profile] jillwheezul: "These are from pages 182-189. It is also mentioned that the mentions of leather hosen are less frequent than cloth ones, but as you can see, not unknown from the record."

The 'Leather vs Woolen' pants song:

Dale Shinn posted this song of the Leather vs Woolen pants year ago (11/23/01) on the Renaissance Military Society (RMS) list. He had this translated from German by a friend of his named Roland and originally received the text from a scholar who was living in Italy at the time and studying items from around Pavia. Apparently there were two versions of this song (see the end of this note), the first was discovered in the scabbard of a Katzbauger wrapped around the blade and the second was written in the lining of a pair of woolen hosen, possibly in blood. The songs are identical except for the swapping of the terms 'leather' and 'wool'. Dale noted that the reference to Maximilian in a song dated 1525 (after the year of his death in 1519), "most probably just indicates it is an old song brought up to date for the coming offensive in Italy. You know like so many Span Am, Civil War and WW1(break the news to Mother) old tunes?"

*English Translation*

The Forlone Hope of Pavia

Through a hail of bullets, with leather trousers tight, in the year 1525, I
went into battle, in honor of Maximilians name.

I like my leather trousers, my wife likes them too, it you were a
Landsknecht, you'd be wearing them too.

Before going into the field, my choice of garments was easy, as everyone
knows: leather trousers are better than wool.

I like my leather trousers, my wife likes them too, it you were a
Landskneckt,you'd be wearing them too.

In the heat of battle, the foe retreats ,in fear of my matchlock,
katzenbalger, but the best protection comes from my leather trousers.

I like my leather trousers, my wife likes them too, if you were a
Landsknecht, you'd be wearing them too.

My leather jacket protects me well too, as everyone knows, leather in better
than wool, with such garments, we won the Battle of Pavia, So let us all sing together!

I like my leather trousers, my wife likes them too, it you were a
Landsknecht, you'd be wearing them too.

*'Leather' German Version*

Der Verlorene Haufen von Pavia

Durch Kugelhagen dicht, mit Lederhosen stram,in Jahre 1521,zog ich in die
Schlacht, zum Ruhmer von Maximilian

Ich mag meine Lederhosen,mein Weib mag sie auch,waerst Du ein
Landskneckt,traegest Du sie auch

Bevor ich ins Felde zog,die Kleiderwahl fiel mir nicht schwer,da jeder
weis,Leder ist besser als Loden.

Ich mag meine Lederhosen,mein Weib mag sie auch,waerst Du ein
Landskneckt,traegest Du sie auch

Im Schlachtengetuemmel, weichen all Feinde, in Furcht vor mein
Luntenschloss, Katzenbalger, aber der groesste Schutz waren meine Lederhosen.

Ich mag meine Lederhosen,mein Weib mag sie auch,waerst Du ein
Landskneckt,traegest Du sie auch

Auch mein Lederwams schuetzt mich gut,den jeder weis,Leder ist besser als
Loden, mit solch Bekleidung stark, gewannen wir die Schlacht von Pavia, darum singen wir alle mit.

Ich mag meine Lederhosen,mein Weib mag sie auch,waerst Du ein
Landskneckt,traegest Du sie auch

*'Woolen' German Version*

Der Verlorene Haufen von Pavia

Durch Kugelhagen dicht, mit Lodenhosen stram,in Jahre 1521,zog ich in die
Schlacht, zum Ruhmer von Maximilian

Ich mag meine Lodenhosen,mein Weib mag sie auch,waerst Du ein
Landskneckt,traegest Du sie auch

Bevor ich ins Felde zog,die Kleiderwahl fiel mir nicht schwer,da jeder
weis,Loden sind besser als Leder.

Ich mag meine Lodenhosen,mein Weib mag sie auch,waerst Du ein
Landskneckt,traegest Du sie auch

In Schlactengetuemmel, weichen all Feinde, in Furcht vor mein Luntenschloss,
Katzenbalger, aber der groesste Schutz waren meine Lodenhosen.

Ich mag meine Lodenhosen, mein Weib mag sie auch,waerst Du ein
Landskneckt,traegest Du sie auch

Auch mein Lodenwams schuetzt mich gut, den jeder weis, Loden ist besser
als Leder, mit solch Bekleidung stark, gewannen wir die Schlacht von Pavia,
darum singen wir alle mit.

Ich mag meine Lodenhosen, mein Weib mag sie auch,waerst Du ein
Landskneckt,traegest Du sie auch

The Tudor Sumptuary Laws
Author(s): Wilfrid Hooper

Source: The English Historical Review, Vol. 30, No. 119 (Jul., 1915), pp. 433-449
Published by: Oxford University Press
Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/551532

Just ran across this on JSTOR. Later period, English, but still fun and evidence that leather was used in pants at times. From a royal sumptuary proclaimation [Book of Proclamations (Brit. Mus., G. 6463), fo. 47 seq.] dated dated the 6th of May 1562:

"It is ordayned . .. that no Taylour, Hosier, or other person whatsoever he shall be, after the day of the publication hereof, shall put any more cloth in any one payre of hosen for the outsyde, then one yarde & a halfe, or at the moste, one yarde & three quarters of a yarde of karsey or of any other cloth, *lether* [emph. added], or any other kinde of stuffe above that quantitie. And in the same hosen to be put only one kynde of lynyng, besides linnen cloth next to the legge, yf any shalbe so disposed, the sayde lynyng not to lye loose, nor to be bolstered, but to lye juste unto their legges, as in ancient tyme was accustomed; Sarcenet, Moccado, or any other lyke thing used to be worne, and to be plucked out for the furniture of the hosen, not to be taken in the name of the syde lynyng. Neyther any man under the degree of a Baron, to weare within his hosen any velvet, Sattin or any other stuffe above the estimation of Sarcenet, or Taffata."


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